I’m tired of hearing people complain about online dating software. What are we going to do about this? For years I’ve made half-hearted attempts at looking into various online dating software packages. From what I’ve learned, most of them I wouldn’t recommend to my enemies.
Let us look at the state of online dating software:
- Lack of strong administration capabilities
- Templates difficult to customize
- Lack of support
- No integration options for third party support
- Upgrading software is a nightmare
- Software isn’t secure
- International developers, language barriers
- Expensive
Overall my experience with online dating software has been uniformly poor, which is unfortunate. I have been recommending SkaDate and Boonex because they are the *only* dating software vendors who have every reached out to me and kept in contact over the years. Both companies are shifting focus to social networks, a telling sign that the dating startup market is changing.
I helped build a site on Dolphin a while back, and I’m familiar with the system and its capabilities. But what about the other 20 companies out there? Which ones deserve thoughtful consideration? Which should be avoided?
I have talked to several vendors over the years,many who dropped off the map. I’m surprised they are not all over this blog. If you’re not actively engaging me and talking about improvements in the software and delivering consistent customer support, it’s hard for me to keep you on my radar. There is just too much ambiguity in the dating software market and a total lack of transparency into which companies are consistently delivering the goods.
Contrast this with social networking software providers. They email, call an keep me up to date on their recent achievements, and most important, clearly show that they are eager to do business an learn from their mistakes.
Part of the problem is the lack of developer support. Lots of people buy a script due to a smooth sales job, then end up paying a developer to learn how to customize the software. Dolphin at least has a fairly strong developer community. This is a huge benefit during the sales and support process.
My work with startups always has a module dedicated to platform selection. In a discussion, I take the time to understand a client’s goals and aspirations. With that knowledge, I am able walk them through the various solutions, starting with free vs. paid, standalone vs. hosted, and all of the pro’s and cons of each. However, when it comes to recommending software besides a few companies, I’m often at a loss. There is simply not enough quality software out there to evaluate.
I always like to have three types of vendors in any area. Cheap and quick, medium-priced and powerful, expensive and the sky’s the limit. This is practically impossible to do in the online dating market.
I was able to meet team Boonex at iDate and spend time talking about their business, the software, and what’s coming next. It’s reassuring to know that that a company flew from Australia to Miami to meet the online dating industry in person. That’s why I’m letting them sponsor this blog. They are committed to new software upgrades and aware that in the past the system was not as robust as it should have been.
Of course people complain about software. People love to complain about anything. Many customers have never run a website before, let along managed developers. These issues, compounded with flaky software and bad customer service, lead to negative comments.
SkaDate’s reputation has been questioned as of late, supposedly this is all from competitors, but I don’t have enough time in the day to chase down all the accusations. I hope they are able to react accordingly and take a presumed negative situation and turn it into a positive.
In this case, the best way to silence competitors is to deliver a superior product. End of story.
I will do what I can to get dating site software developers to work harder, deliver better customer support and work with dating companies to help them grow. It starts with you. It’s *really* important for people to share their experiences with online dating software companies. How else are we going to learn which software is worthwhile?
Image is from DatingSoftwareReviewer (update your site!)
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In all the project I’ve been involved in we’ve built our own from scratch. It takes time and money, but it’s nice to decide everything yourself.
It would be interesting to know what features/level of customization you would consider necessary at each of your mentioned price points.
Good question. Come to think of it, I would prefer a one-size fits all solution that lots of developers know how to customize and there is a vibrant community of solution providers. Some systems let you add features, but the features are not well thought out and usually difficult to use.
As a blogger, I’m familiar with “theming” blog engines. It’s a one-click affair and the display logic is 100% separate from the design templates. Too much of the systems I see have the two intertwined which is painful to customize.
Dating sites are of course more complex of course, but the logic is the same.
I haven’t really looked at any of this software, we built our own from scratch as well.
I find it hard to believe any serious vendors don’t separate their display logic from design templates. Smoking crack on the job much?
Which applications don’t do this, out of curiosity – would be nice to know what to avoid for the future.
Vendors seem to be in the middle of an upgrade party, I would check with each vendor and get a read on how difficult it is to customize their front-ends and functionality.
What the salesperson says is often quite different from reality, especially when your developer is on the clock and you see him scratching his head.
I found this topic interesting because I have a friend who was lead developer along with 2 other developers on a project where they started with software the boss bought. It was a youtube-style portal where people could post videos and whatnot. He complained endlessly about the horrible security problems and general software quality issues he was faced with. (I would’ve too, it was very basic stuff that was all wrong.) It would’ve been faster to write it from scratch since by the end of the project very little of the original software was left. Overall however I think it was a good idea to buy the source because it let them gain market share early when others were rushing to market as well.
The advice I would give your clients that are considering buying such scripts is to be aware that if you plan on using it for any extended amount of time be ready to have it eventually replaced entirely, piece by piece, as it all starts falling apart as you add to it (or even falls apart on its own) at a slower pace than if you wrote it from scratch. It might be worth buying if you want to target an as-yet under-represented niche in dating but if you’re going for the general dating site for anybody route it would probably be better to develop something innovative or with a special angle/hook internally.
Bear in mind though that the above advice is only applicable if you have confidence in your software development team to be able to cope with the problems. If they’re no better than the developers of these scripts (ie: you hired the cheapest guys you could find) then it’s definitely better to buy the script and let your guys wail away on it until it sorta-mostly-works-most-of-the-time since what they would develop on their own might not be much better. This can also be the case when you have competent programmers that have little or no experience in web development.
We just released an important feature update for SkaDate with SMS billing and other features.
datingsoftwarereviewer is a fake site created by one of the competitors, not to mention names here. If anyone cares to read all those sophisticated poor-English bad reviews it’s easy to figure out who’s the one praised there. The same goes to “negative” reputation you mentioned. We are no longer going to respond, it’s better to concentrate on writing good software.
Can anyone name me one (just one) dating website that has been successful (as in, made its owners lots of profit) that has used dating s/w, as opposed to writing their own s/w in-house?
You simply cannot succeed in this business with an off-the-shelf product.
Just my two cents.
That’s probably more a function of the initial budget people have and the fact that most of the software is less than adequate.
Typically I’ll hear that someone wants to start a dating site and they have $5k to spend on a site, and they have $10k total to invest in their business. So my job at that stage is to help the person not lose their $10k.
The online dating business is very attractive to budding entrepreneurs. About as attractive as starting a restaurant, only more likely to fail.
I work with White Label Dating. I like the white labeling approach because affiliates can see decent paying user conversions from the get go. It makes sense, which is why there’s a bit of a resurgence in the white labeling model. VCs don’t like the white labeling model because they say the white labeler has little in the way of brand equity. But cash is king. And whoever serves affiliates and mega-affiliates and newspapers and the likes interest the best, wins. Look at FriendFinder. They built their business on affiliate marketing (and naked pictures, granted) but they’ve proved the affiliate model works. But smart affiliates should be able to eek out more brand equity. Enter the white labelers.
Many of the major dating sites will white label. But they won’t work the little guy who is going to generate $1k a month revenue for the year, cut their teeth and then eventually scale to perhaps $10k a month. But these kinds of affiliates make up the considerable long tail of earning that FriendFinder rakes in.
Mark Brooks
Online Personals Watch
212-444-1636
Full Disclosure: White Label Dating is a current client of Courtland Brooks. Also, I was a marketing manager at FriendFinder in 2003-2004.
I think amount of marketing dollars has a lot to do with it. If you’re not spending a lot on advertising, you’re not getting enough traffic. People who don’t have money for marketing usually don’t have enough to build a custom site.
Good point about restaurant analogy. White label dating, the sector, not company, will be considered successful when there are less adult profiles, profile ownership issues are addressed once and for all, sites are more customization and people can start free ad and partner-supported sites. We’re working on it, just takes time.
White Labelers Holding Onto Profiles {seesmic_video:{“url_thumbnail”:{“value”:”http://t.seesmic.com/thumbnail/5jkIIqZ3Gn_th1.jpg”}”title”:{“value”:”White Labelers Holding Onto Profiles ”}”videoUri”:{“value”:”http://www.seesmic.com/video/i8zDvS4EE3″}}}
So, I take it no names available of dating websites that have been successful using off-the-shelf s/w?:)
If true, then what is the point?
Sam, packaged software is an indicator, not the cause. Packaged software often attracts people who don’t have the resources to effectively market their sites.
I’m all for evening the playing field and giving upstarts a chance to compete with the larger, more established companies. The problem is market saturation and the high costs or advertising and the only niches seem to be geographical, which have proven difficult to exploit.
Ok, but regardless of the reason for lack of success, when does packaged s/w ever make sense? Sure, it may “often attract people who don’t have the resources to effectively market their sites”. But, if they don’t stand a chance, why bother?
It is all about supply and demand and the ability to weather the storm. If you can’t, you’re doomed, no matter how “unfair” it may seem. That’s capitalism for you, plain and simple.
i love your site, it is very good to read it…thanks!
Buildind dating website from the scratch is a very good idea for sure, but it all depends on budget and business plan. This is the best what you can do if you go to online dating business.Cool Idea+Great Budget
But there are hundreds of people who look for reliable packaged software for their dating ideas. And these people will always be. There are good dating software packages for sure. They are good for their price. It’s a compromise.
White Label Dating is good, but it will fill the market with much more worthless websites than websites built on packaged software. Because it is easy. White label dating sites will born and die much faster than it should be.
Harsh reality, indeed. Maybe a discussion about the bare essentials required to start a dating site are in order.
Potpartner.com is one of our successful customers. I’d love to name a few more if I had permission. My experience says that a successful dating site doesn’t need to have bells and whistles but it has to target real audience. This particular site didn’t even modify a lot from the original version 6 of SkaDate software.
Advice to go white label (affiliate system for 3rd party database) strictly only shows lack of imagination. There are hundreds profitable dating sites that Mark Brooks would advise against launching at all.
Sam, I understand the veteran the-only-tr0o attitude that old-timers take but when people think their way is the only right, it means 1) their way is the only right; or 2) they are blind to see other ways.
With respect, it isn’t about an “old-timer’s” attitude. It has nothing to do with being around for a while. I guess I am blind, if being right means knowing how to make money. Lots of money. If not seeing “other ways”, as in, don’t actually make any money, then I am truly blind.
So, I went to “Potpartner.com”. Interesting site. No one seems to have the motivattion, shall we say, to actually visit the site.
Who’s online at http://www.Potpartner.com
No profiles were found
It is ranked by Alexa as the 2,401,362nd most visited site online. Translation: not even the owners visit it. Perhaps off smoking up?
good info, useful resources, thank you!
I agree with Emil…
It does not matter if you create your own site or purchase off the shelf, or if you have bells and whistles or not, the only way your going to be successful is by your perticular niche, SEO and marketing/advertsing strategies.
Look at all the sucessful dating sites, they have NOT reinvented the wheel, they use seo to target most of their audience.
Tony
Potpartner, Hobby or Job? {seesmic_video:{“url_thumbnail”:{“value”:”http://t.seesmic.com/thumbnail/F4C0cdP0WM_th1.jpg”}”title”:{“value”:”Potpartner, Hobby or Job? ”}”videoUri”:{“value”:”http://www.seesmic.com/video/j1VmtqxJbS”}}}
Tony,
Agree. During the SkaDate product lifetime we have launched more than 5 thousand dating websites. Some of them are real unique ideas, some are not. Most never find their way but some really go profitable one-(or more)-man-bands. I’ve seen it all and I just can take this tired don’t-get-in-business mantra seriously.
The industry landscape changes and it’s going to be revolutionized bottom-up. Small sites do it all – try new ideas, adopt new trends, take risks. On the other hand you have these industry experts advising against playing new and evangelizing affiliate systems. Where is online dating here at all?
Potpartner.com has an Alexa rank of 2.4 million and around 2k uniques a month according to Alexa and Compete respectively. What is ‘successful.’
David, thank you for the post and for mentioning BoonEx. I wish I could comment earlier, but we’ve just arrived from London (socialnetworkingforum), where we had very limited time. By the way the conference in London was pretty good – slightly different crowd than at iDate (“less friendly” I would say), but still it gave lots of good food for thought.
Ok, a few points:
1. BOONEX/DOLPHIN
First off, we have just opened a “Public Preview” of the upcoming release of Dolphin 7. Take a look at http://www.boonex.com/unity/blog/entry/Dolphin_7_Hookie_Public_Preview_Build_12_ . It’s very raw at this stage, but is already receiving warm welcome – just read comments in the post. The Dolphin 7 feature set + customization options give every opportunity to build any kind of dating or social networking site, which bring me to the next point…
2. SUCCESSFUL SITES BASED ON DOLPHIN
Sam asked: “Can anyone name me one (just one) dating website that has been successful (as in, made its owners lots of profit) that has used dating s/w, as opposed to writing their own s/w in-house?”
I would rephrase: “Can anyone name me one (just one) businessman that has been successful (as in, made himself lots of profit) that has used iPhone, as opposed to building their own mobile device and writing their own s/w for it in-house?”
“Can anyone name me one (just one) dating website that has been successful (as in, made its owners lots of profit) that has used PHP, as opposed to writing their own programming language?”
This may be a harsh rephrasing, but the point I’m trying to make is that the software is not a product – it’s a tool – an extra layer of automation. Software is merely a way to save some time/money while launching your business. For example, we could easily build a 100% clone of Facebook, but it wouldn’t clone the FB’s success.
I’ll try to answer the “what is successful” question Mark Brooks asked. When it comes to software “successful” site is a site which has been launched according to the owner’s idea and the software helped to save time or money. This is it. Period. The rest is totally up to marketing, idea, niche, people, talent, luck, you name it.
Some products do better job than others. As a “tool” software must maximize opportunities and minimize limits – and this is the very core idea behind Dolphin. We try to pack it with lots of features, builders and customization options, while keeping it open and independent. It’s a huge tool-box if you will, drop what you don’t need, use what you do need, add what’s missing and do the job. IF you can’t add things – we have, as David noted, a community of web-masters who can do this for you. You can find lots of developers with Dolphin-experience even at 3rd party development communities, such as elance or odesk. Dolphin 7 will bring it to the next level as we’re opening code for flash apps, adding mobile apps and plan to simplify licensing. BoonEx is known for innovation – we were the first to introduce “blocks”concept, the first to pack CMS with flash apps, the first to offer “couples” functionality, the first to provide fully-configurable profile fields, etc, etc. Now we’ll be the first to open source code for Flash apps, such as Video Chat, Video Messenger, Video Player, Whiteboards, Video Comments and more. The first to pack the software with Adobe AIR app, iPhone App and Android App. Our roadmap for the current and next year includes even more exciting new features and most importantly switch to our proprietary development framework – Poseidon.
Real world examples? Now this is always a tough question for us, mainly because the biggest customers always prefer to stay anonymous. Very often you may find a site powered by Dolphin but you would not be able to recognize the software. Sometimes I spend 10-15 minutes on the site before realizing it’s a Dolphin-based site! That’s tool-box for ya. Just recently we worked with a large “.il” customer with an old Dolphin-based site with over 0.5 mil members – we were updating the software. That site is quite successful in its niche. We have also seen sites running smaller networks for schools, or local communities with great success and already have a few reports from our customers dropping their full-time job to work from home. We don’t track customers’ sites normally, since we have tens of thousands of them, but I have a (admittedly chaotic) list of what I call “good finds”:
britster.com
watabuzz.com
aaffair.com
accessleo.com
lebanesecupid.com
CreativeYouthCommunity.com
myonlinepad.com
http://dateorflirt.com/
http://www.foodopia.com/
pornovue.com
armenianpassion.com
militaryromance.us
http://lubalove.ru/index.php
http://vsporte.com/
http://www.young-soccer.de/
http://www.single-kontakt-123.de/index.php
http://wedojokes.com/
diabeticlifewon.com
freedrink.net
sex-encounters.com
http://spass-city.de/
carpfishingtips.co.uk/
yeniortam.net/
runet.co.uk
internet-dating.com/
http://lovebook.com.au/
thekijiji.com/
szene-graz.at
fashionkatz.com
ondapix.com
lustzone24.de
trinimate.com
ylove.co.il
hivandsingle.com
meta-match.com
http://www.amb1tions.com/index.php
powerexchange.com
stdfriends.com
divebook.ca/
my-fans.com/
fetish-meets-fetish.com
hunto.com/
partynites.com
http://www.lovepeace.ch/
blogofshadows.net/
http://www.foodservicesingles.com/
http://giorgiotave.it/
http://www.xtremeoutdoorstv.com/
http://www.olee.at/
http://varazdin-info.com/
u30party.de
deathregister.co.za
http://www.malaysiansalumni.com/
http://www.christiandatingforus.com/
http://www.frenszone.com/
http://www.alwassit.ma/
http://lynkcity.com/
http://destinationflyer.com/
http://minutaie.com/
http://www.club840.com/
http://www.tcarabicyouth.com/
http://achara.eu/
http://skycommunity.de/
http://nitelife.co.za/
http://z316.com/
http://www.glicket.com/
http://www.arequipa.net/
http://community.de.amadeus.com/
http://theoldteam.com/
http://www.whiteyonder.com/
http://www.datebydesign.com
http://iranianpassion.com/
http://jydedating.nu/
http://geefsamen.nl/
http://www.elegancemarine.fr/
http://www.jitsin8590.com/
http://www.gingil.com/
http://www.yuppiefriends.com/
http://beclub.de/
http://www.staatsdienertreff.de/
http://www.myaviationpage.com/
http://community.globaldefence.net/
http://www.bbwnetwork.com/community/
http://www.eastcupid.com/english/pages/
http://www.coinnoisseur.com/web/
http://www.asienladyboys.com/
http://www.doggycafe.com.au/
http://dostor.kg/
http://industryexposure.com/community/
http://www.myfishmap.com/
http://successin60minutes.com/Network/index.php
http://www.safetyissues.com/community/
http://fanarea.hockenheimring.net/
http://www.theveterannation.org/
http://www.pferdeleben.eu/
http://www.gluspot.com/community3/
http://www.lifesjourneynetwork.com/
http://thebarristerslounge.com/
http://fc-fankurve.de/
http://www.danceforfun.at/
freechristiansinglesdating.com
http://www.firstnight.de/
http://lebanesecupid.com/
http://www.scebs.com/
http://www.bein.com/
digital-renaissances.org
http://vistablock.com/
http://www.nripatels.org/
http://www.newtonyc.org/
http://skreenagers.com/
http://www.doopies.com/
http://www.ironhorsepatrol.com/
http://www.kachidospace.com/
couplemonster.com
nattensnyheter.com
http://www.viterbobynight.com/
http://www.truebellezas.com/
http://www.okmon.com
http://www.dogmunity.com/
http://www.vivlin.com/
http://www.artacadabra.com/web/
http://happyisland.it/
http://onmybloq.com/
http://www.onlyforpetlovers.com/
http://www.rainbowchristians.com/
http://cbaffiliatesclub.com/
http://www.kiss.ru/
http://my-cellular.com/
http://www.holla.fr/
http://www.woofi.net/
http://itprocafe.com/
http://www.lunchbreakers.com/
http://www.eduugle.com/
http://www.opinionspark.com/
http://desetka.com/
http://emolio.com/
http://www.lovecardsdating.com/
http://www.jmaati.com/
http://sharelanguage.com/
http://www.poetzrealm.com/community/index.php
http://www.centurionmc.com/
http://www.nunaconnection.ca/
http://www.dancelife.com.au/default2.php
http://socalprerunners.net/community/
http://xchatincontri.com/
http://quick4work.com/
http://www.globalenvironmentalsociety.net/
http://hightimedating.com/
http://www.medicalvibe.com/V2/
http://losarcanos.tv/
http://www.nordheideregion.de/
http://www.top.sk/
http://www.mymmorpgspace.com/
http://www.lingopass.com/
http://www.funny-single.com/
http://www.betravels.com/
http://www.lucyundluke.de/
http://www.eplantspace.com/
http://singleanddivorcedonline.com/
http://www.swahilichat.net/Main/
http://www.alumnimzs.com/
http://www.iparents.com/
http://www.icehockeyconnections.ca/ice/
filthyliar.com
http://www.faithbuildersonline.com/index.php
http://modepass.com/
http://www.leftrightunite.com/
http://www.teevau.de/
http://www.wasties.com/
http://www.xzoit.com/
http://redfen.net/
http://ict.pcna.ca/
http://decoratetogether.com/
http://www.talaba21.com/
http://matevine.com/
http://www.motospace.com/community/
http://www.chatzinc.com/
http://www.yackahoo.com/
http://www.lovelagoon.ch/
http://www.randiparty.com/
http://tchatche-webcam.net/
http://members.mysocialincome.com/
http://www.shortlistid.com/
http://www.thinkfellow.com/
http://www.bigtreff.com/
http://wcmfamily.com/
http://www.everyq.com/
http://genesisgraphix.com/
http://www.crewmoves.com/
http://urbantelly.tv/
http://www.tousivoiriens.com/
http://ligaid.de/
http://www.dtspace.net/
http://www.mybuzzle.com/
http://sabcgreenleaders.co.za/
http://apostolicsinglesnetwork.com/network/index.php
http://www.letics.com/page_html.php?page=home_nl
http://conceivableworld.com/
You can see the diversity of ideas and designs. That list once again re-enforces my point – Dolphin is a tool, a good tool, the best tool of its kind. If you have an idea and don’t have millions to burn for in-house development – go for it.
I’ve submitted a large comment with a list of sites… waiting for approval.
David, thank you for the post and for mentioning BoonEx. I wish I could comment earlier, but we’ve just arrived from London (socialnetworkingforum), where we had very limited time. By the way the conference in London was pretty good – slightly different crowd than at iDate (“less friendly” I would say), but still it gave lots of good food for thought.
Ok, a few points:
1. BOONEX/DOLPHIN
First off, we have just opened a “Public Preview” of the upcoming release of Dolphin 7. Take a look at http://www.boonex.com/unity/blog/entry/Dolphin_7_Hookie_Public_Preview_Build_12_ . It’s very raw at this stage, but is already receiving warm welcome – just read comments in the post. The Dolphin 7 feature set + customization options give every opportunity to build any kind of dating or social networking site, which bring me to the next point…
2. SUCCESSFUL SITES BASED ON DOLPHIN
Sam asked: “Can anyone name me one (just one) dating website that has been successful (as in, made its owners lots of profit) that has used dating s/w, as opposed to writing their own s/w in-house?”
I would rephrase: “Can anyone name me one (just one) businessman that has been successful (as in, made himself lots of profit) that has used iPhone, as opposed to building their own mobile device and writing their own s/w for it in-house?”
“Can anyone name me one (just one) dating website that has been successful (as in, made its owners lots of profit) that has used PHP, as opposed to writing their own programming language?”
This may be a harsh rephrasing, but the point I’m trying to make is that the software is not a product – it’s a tool – an extra layer of automation. Software is merely a way to save some time/money while launching your business. For example, we could easily build a 100% clone of Facebook, but it wouldn’t clone the FB’s success.
I’ll try to answer the “what is successful” question Mark Brooks asked. When it comes to software “successful” site is a site which has been launched according to the owner’s idea and the software helped to save time or money. This is it. Period. The rest is totally up to marketing, idea, niche, people, talent, luck, you name it.
Some products do better job than others. As a “tool” software must maximize opportunities and minimize limits – and this is the very core idea behind Dolphin. We try to pack it with lots of features, builders and customization options, while keeping it open and independent. It’s a huge tool-box if you will, drop what you don’t need, use what you do need, add what’s missing and do the job. IF you can’t add things – we have, as David noted, a community of web-masters who can do this for you. You can find lots of developers with Dolphin-experience even at 3rd party development communities, such as elance or odesk. Dolphin 7 will bring it to the next level as we’re opening code for flash apps, adding mobile apps and plan to simplify licensing. BoonEx is known for innovation – we were the first to introduce “blocks”concept, the first to pack CMS with flash apps, the first to offer “couples” functionality, the first to provide fully-configurable profile fields, etc, etc. Now we’ll be the first to open source code for Flash apps, such as Video Chat, Video Messenger, Video Player, Whiteboards, Video Comments and more. The first to pack the software with Adobe AIR app, iPhone App and Android App. OUr roadmap for the current and next year
Real world examples? Now this , is always a tough question for us, mainly because the biggest customers always prefer to stay anonymous. Very often you may find a site powered by Dolphin but you would be able to recognize the software. Sometimes I spend 10-15 minutes on the site before realizing it’s a Dolphin-based site! That’s tool-box for ya. Just recently we worked with a large “.il” customer with an old Dolphin-based site with over 0.5 mil members – we were updating the software. That site is quite successful in its niche. We have also seen sites running smaller networks for schools, or local communities with great success and already have a few reports from our customers dropping their full-time job to work from home. We don’t track customers’ sites normally, since we have tens of thousands of them, but I have a (admittedly chaotic) list of what I call “good finds”:
britster.com
watabuzz.com
aaffair.com
accessleo.com
lebanesecupid.com
CreativeYouthCommunity.com
myonlinepad.com
http://dateorflirt.com/
http://www.foodopia.com/
pornovue.com
armenianpassion.com
militaryromance.us
http://lubalove.ru/index.php
http://vsporte.com/
http://www.young-soccer.de/
http://www.single-kontakt-123.de/index.php
http://wedojokes.com/
diabeticlifewon.com
freedrink.net
sex-encounters.com
http://spass-city.de/
carpfishingtips.co.uk/
yeniortam.net/
runet.co.uk
internet-dating.com/
http://lovebook.com.au/
thekijiji.com/
szene-graz.at
fashionkatz.com
ondapix.com
lustzone24.de
trinimate.com
ylove.co.il
hivandsingle.com
meta-match.com
http://www.amb1tions.com/index.php
powerexchange.com
stdfriends.com
divebook.ca/
my-fans.com/
fetish-meets-fetish.com
hunto.com/
partynites.com
http://www.lovepeace.ch/
blogofshadows.net/
http://www.foodservicesingles.com/
http://giorgiotave.it/
http://www.xtremeoutdoorstv.com/
http://www.olee.at/
http://varazdin-info.com/
u30party.de
deathregister.co.za
http://www.malaysiansalumni.com/
http://www.christiandatingforus.com/
http://www.frenszone.com/
http://www.alwassit.ma/
http://lynkcity.com/
http://destinationflyer.com/
http://minutaie.com/
http://www.club840.com/
http://www.tcarabicyouth.com/
http://achara.eu/
http://skycommunity.de/
http://nitelife.co.za/
http://z316.com/
http://www.glicket.com/
http://www.arequipa.net/
http://community.de.amadeus.com/
http://theoldteam.com/
http://www.whiteyonder.com/
http://www.datebydesign.com
http://iranianpassion.com/
http://jydedating.nu/
http://geefsamen.nl/
http://www.elegancemarine.fr/
http://www.jitsin8590.com/
http://www.gingil.com/
http://www.yuppiefriends.com/
http://beclub.de/
http://www.staatsdienertreff.de/
http://www.myaviationpage.com/
http://community.globaldefence.net/
http://www.bbwnetwork.com/community/
http://www.eastcupid.com/english/pages/
http://www.coinnoisseur.com/web/
http://www.asienladyboys.com/
http://www.doggycafe.com.au/
http://dostor.kg/
http://industryexposure.com/community/
http://www.myfishmap.com/
http://successin60minutes.com/Network/index.php
http://www.safetyissues.com/community/
http://fanarea.hockenheimring.net/
http://www.theveterannation.org/
http://www.pferdeleben.eu/
http://www.gluspot.com/community3/
http://www.lifesjourneynetwork.com/
http://thebarristerslounge.com/
http://fc-fankurve.de/
http://www.danceforfun.at/
freechristiansinglesdating.com
http://www.firstnight.de/
http://lebanesecupid.com/
http://www.scebs.com/
http://www.bein.com/
digital-renaissances.org
http://vistablock.com/
http://www.nripatels.org/
http://www.newtonyc.org/
http://skreenagers.com/
http://www.doopies.com/
http://www.ironhorsepatrol.com/
http://www.kachidospace.com/
couplemonster.com
nattensnyheter.com
http://www.viterbobynight.com/
http://www.truebellezas.com/
http://www.okmon.com
http://www.dogmunity.com/
http://www.vivlin.com/
http://www.artacadabra.com/web/
http://happyisland.it/
http://onmybloq.com/
http://www.onlyforpetlovers.com/
http://www.rainbowchristians.com/
http://cbaffiliatesclub.com/
http://www.kiss.ru/
http://my-cellular.com/
http://www.holla.fr/
http://www.woofi.net/
http://itprocafe.com/
http://www.lunchbreakers.com/
http://www.eduugle.com/
http://www.opinionspark.com/
http://desetka.com/
http://emolio.com/
http://www.lovecardsdating.com/
http://www.jmaati.com/
http://sharelanguage.com/
http://www.poetzrealm.com/community/index.php
http://www.centurionmc.com/
http://www.nunaconnection.ca/
http://www.dancelife.com.au/default2.php
http://socalprerunners.net/community/
http://xchatincontri.com/
http://quick4work.com/
http://www.globalenvironmentalsociety.net/
http://hightimedating.com/
http://www.medicalvibe.com/V2/
http://losarcanos.tv/
http://www.nordheideregion.de/
http://www.top.sk/
http://www.mymmorpgspace.com/
http://www.lingopass.com/
http://www.funny-single.com/
http://www.betravels.com/
http://www.lucyundluke.de/
http://www.eplantspace.com/
http://singleanddivorcedonline.com/
http://www.swahilichat.net/Main/
http://www.alumnimzs.com/
http://www.iparents.com/
http://www.icehockeyconnections.ca/ice/
filthyliar.com
http://www.faithbuildersonline.com/index.php
http://modepass.com/
http://www.leftrightunite.com/
http://www.teevau.de/
http://www.wasties.com/
http://www.xzoit.com/
http://redfen.net/
http://ict.pcna.ca/
http://decoratetogether.com/
http://www.talaba21.com/
http://matevine.com/
http://www.motospace.com/community/
http://www.chatzinc.com/
http://www.yackahoo.com/
http://www.lovelagoon.ch/
http://www.randiparty.com/
http://tchatche-webcam.net/
http://members.mysocialincome.com/
http://www.shortlistid.com/
http://www.thinkfellow.com/
http://www.bigtreff.com/
http://wcmfamily.com/
http://www.everyq.com/
http://genesisgraphix.com/
http://www.crewmoves.com/
http://urbantelly.tv/
http://www.tousivoiriens.com/
http://ligaid.de/
http://www.dtspace.net/
http://www.mybuzzle.com/
http://sabcgreenleaders.co.za/
http://apostolicsinglesnetwork.com/network/index.php
http://www.letics.com/page_html.php?page=home_nl
http://conceivableworld.com/
You can see the diversity of ideas and designs. That list once again re-enforces my point – Dolphin is a tool, a good tool, the best tool of its kind. If you have an idea and don’t have millions to burn for in-house development – go for it.
Andrew,
You are exactly right when you stated:
“When it comes to software “successful†site is a site which has been launched according to the owner’s idea and the software helped to save time or money. This is it. Period. The rest is totally up to marketing, idea, niche, people, talent, luck, you name it.”
Tony
Good comments, esp from Andrew Boon. My point is that to have a successful (decent net profit) singles site, you won’t be able to do it with an off-the-shelf product. Sure, success means having a lot of things working for you, with the s/w being but one part. However, your actual db is critical.
Andrew listed quite a number of sites using his product. How many are successful?
I grabbed these ones at random:
1. http://socalprerunners.net/community. Alexa ranking: 6,177,838
2. http://thebarristerslounge.com/. Alexa ranking: No Data
3. http://www.asienladyboys.com/. Alexa ranking: 3,686,762
4. http://www.shortlistid.com/. Site not found
5. http://www.mybuzzle.com/. Alexa ranking: 1,369,884
6. http://www.nunaconnection.ca/. Alexa ranking: No Data
7. http://www.lovecardsdating.com/. Alexa ranking: 835,260
8. http://www.club840.com/. Alexa ranking: No Data
9. http://internet-dating.com/. Alexa ranking: 4,434,262
10. http://www.eduugle.com/. Alexa ranking: No Data
Interpretation: no one is using these sites.
Sam, Mark,
One of the definitions for “successful” is “profitable”, do you accept it?
Alexa is especially bad for small sites, yet small sites can be profitable. Potpartner IS profitable. Watcherswebclubhouse.com (adult content warning) is -spectacularly- profitable, if I just could tell you, you would scratch your head.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/1000lovers.ru – Shows virtually nothing. Yet 1000lovers.ru has around 1 million actual members and is powered by SkaDate. Alexa is even more useless here because of non-US traffic.
What’s in that traffic=success metric anyways? It’s only true for big players. You should better pay attention to number of members online or interaction that users demonstrate on site. hot555.com, hypedates.com, onerush.com – these are real sites, with real members. If they develop software from scratch they will not automatically become “successful” in your definition – only spend 10-100 times more time and money.
It’s confusing to hear talks like that from industry insiders.
Sarnogoev,
Re: definitions for “successful†is “profitable†– I think in this context, it can’t be anything other than that. We are talking about the business of dating here.
I agree that Alexa is not a perfect measurement, esp. outside N. America. You’ll note that my examples from your (long) list of clients were all sites based in the US (as far as I could tell – I typically went off the domain). I think Alexa has lots of problems as a tracking source, but it does give a *general* overview of where a particular site is, in terms of usage. Anything over a few hundred thousand is not being used much. It’s that simple.
All of the sites I grabbed at random from your list were ranked extremely poorly.
http://www.potpartner.com is profitable? By what measure? He spent $500 on the db and somehow got that back? Besides not being able to see how he did that, that is not profitable. That is break-even. I am defining profitable as being able to make a (very decent) living off of it.
A site like http://www.hot555.com/ is ranked 388,510. And, it is advertized as “100% free, no hidden costs”. I can’t see how a site ranked that poorly is making *any* money at all.
http://www.hypedates.com/ targets the Carribbean online community, so you could argue that the Alexa ranking is inaccurate. What is its revenue source? Advertizing, also? If so, I can’t see the (financial) success.
http://www.onerush.com/ targets the teen market. I assume it is on the free (ad-supported) model, too. Where is its financial success?
http://www.watcherswebclubhouse.com/ is ranked well by Alexa: 33,386. So, I could see it making money. However, that is a sex site, not a dating site (in the traditional sense). Consequently, I wouldn’t count is as a successful dating site, by definition
I don’t agree with your comment, “What’s in that traffic=success metric anyways? It’s only true for big players.” Traffic does = success, pure and simple. No traffic = no success. Lots of traffic = the *potential* of success (lots of sites have traffic; few actually make money off of it, unless they are charging, and the conversion rate is good, or they have significant clicks on ads being displayed – and, there are few “free” sites that make it, esp. besides Plentyoffish.com).
This is not about being “true for the big players”. We aren’t a big player. Well, we do make several million/year, so perhaps that is big by your standards. But, we are small compared to Match or eHarmony.
Anyway, more of my “two cents”. Nothing personal. It’s all business to me (not the adult stuff – I wouldn’t get involved in that for all the money in the world. I have to stand before my Maker someday and account for what I did with my life.).
Sam,
Are we about your preferences or about successful sites on our software, no matter their business plans?
The first sites I mentioned ARE profitable. Don’t ask me to what extent. I don’t know if the last three sites I gave you are profitable or not (I don’t have any of their financial data), I mentioned them as sites having real membersand interaction. This is what matters. You don’t think we have “special tools” in our software to render site profitable or failed, do you? It’s all up to business plans and their execution.
My original point is that SkaDate software is just a business tool. And people use it up to their capabilities – this is what defines success. SkaDate has precedents of being used for successful (profitable) websites and websites able to attract and retain members. What else do you expect from software anyway?
Hello everyone. I am the owner of Military Romance and a user of the Dolphin platform. I really love the platform and enjoy that the Boonex team is always striving to make it better. You can run the software for free, or in my case, make an investment in the future of the company. My site has an Allexa ranking of 1,096,980 and a Google PR of 1. I have had the site for a year now and have only lately gotten the site stats up. This was due primarily to upgrading from Dolphin 5 to 6. In 6 Boonex added permalinking to the software. And, stupid me did not realize that Google would penalize me for having a ton of content in such a short span of time. So, here is my point.
Most of the Dolphin sites are developed by armatures like me. We make mistakes more in the SEO department than with the design portion. That is why we do not have a higher traffic rating or higher page rank. The Dolphin suite is great and I really have grown to love it. With a few add-ons from programmers on the Expertzzz.com support site, you can make it a truly unique platform.
Profit margin. That is a sore subject. The problem with dating sites is to get your design, SEO and niche. I am competing with sites that make 10 million a year. I cannot possibly go head to head with those guys in the advertising department. But, what I can do is be smart about my SEO and get more users to my site. Nobody wants to see just a few people at your site. Once I have a larger user base, I will start charging. I have made that slight sacrifice now so that I can benefit from the loyal users that love the platform also.
To sum this rambling up. Dolphin is a great software platform. It will allow you to build beyond your wildest dreams. The user/owner just has to have a good head on them with SEO and having a database of users to start out with. When you do all of this, you will have a money maker.
http://www.militaryromance.us
Kristian, welcome. I like what you are doing for the troops and you seem sincere. We appreciate your perspective on Dolphin; its helpful to hear stories from dating site operators. SEO is one thing to focus on, hope you are spending time getting exposure on sites where military personnel hang out and sending out press releases to bloggers.
Man, what have I started?;-) We can go back and forth forever on defining success, the back-end s/w being critical or not, etc.
It is about more than s/w – but it is also important to have a robust back-end. The successful sites (decent-sized databases necessary for critical mass for their respective markets, to get people to open their wallets – and keep them open, to become and stay *profitable*) don’t use off-the-shelf back-end products. They built them inhouse for a reason: it was necessary to surivive and prosper. No one has your back like yourself.
I suppose it is *possible* to get a new business up-and-running using back-end s/w, then getting something done in-house (or, with a trusted 3rd party company) to grow the business more.
I just don’t see that happening in reality. Sure, if could be because there are all these established sites (generic or niche) to compete with, but success is dependent on so many factors. Without a good back-end, though, you can’t hope to compete.
A large part of our success is our back-end, which is essentially our full-time tech staff. It is not just about scalability (although, this is critical), it is the zillion other things you need, esp stuff you have to adapt to on-the-fly, e.g. keeping scammers and ne’er-do-wells out, automating everything that can be automated, responding to customer requests for new features, and on-and-on it goes.
Re: Kristian Moore’s http://www.militaryromance.us – God bless you. The more you support the (US) troops, the better, I say! (And, I am a Cdn saying that – we have our troops, too, fighting for freedom, esp. in Afghanistan).
Sam
Thank you for support Kristian. I’ve always believed that the most important factor to success is the _meaning_ of your venture. Not software, not even marketing, not business plan. Google made it because the were “organizing worlds information…”, Apple was “changing the world”, Sam Moorcroft – “connecting Christian singles”, Facebook – “connect and share with the people in your life”, BoonEx – “unite people”, etc, etc, etc. It’s a tough and long journey, but those who believe in what they are doing, and those who do right things – always win.
… (no matter who develops their software)
I agree with Andrew’s comment. The business model of most dating sites is very short-sighted with a what’s in for me attitude. If Apple did an “iDating” site, it’d have no members because they’d all be married off. Date different!
So now we are going to blame the dating sites for not having a 100% marriage rate? The dating site is the virtual meeting place, or, in our case, the virtual cafe:)
We provide the venue, and have tons of “mix-it” games. But, ultimately, it is the members who decide what is suitable for them or not. Blaming the venue for the lack of connections is misplaced.
None of us would be in business if people had their relationship-act together.
A WIFM attitude is what drives capitalism, my friend. If you want to build a better mouse-trap…as the proverbial saying goes…
You should be on Wall Street.
Yeah. Difference is that we actually provide something called a *service* to meet something called a real *need* – and make this elusive thing called *profit*. No credit-swaps, ABCP, derivatives, or ponzi schemes required. Or bailouts.
Just a straight, meet-a-need-by-providing-a-service, pure old make-more-money-than-we-take-in business. It’s a non-monopoly, I might add. It isn’t like anyone is forced to put down a credit card – anyone not seeing value doesn’t pay, or visit again.
I’ll say it once more, “mauricev”: if you don’t like it, build a better mousetrap:-) Go ahead, show us how it is done;-) Meantime, if you’ll excuse me, I have a business to run.
Dave,
Here is a perfect example of the misinformation I’ve been dealing with trying to thoroughly research the various dating software companies out there and dealing with all the fake review sites. One such site is http://www.datingscripts.biz. Of course they praise Wazzum Dating Software and have Wazzum ads posted, but they never say they ARE Wazzum. This is easily discovered by doing a whois lookup at godaddy.com/whois on both domains (datingscripts.biz and Wazzum.com). You will see that Mr. Michael Pennington of Oregon wasn’t even savvy enough to change his information or make it private. Mr. Pennington, a more ethical way would be to do a comparison of the features and benefits of your software versus all of the competitors, but not to do the same thing that you’ve accused others of doing. Go figure!!!!
Regards,
Eric
And by the way, my baseline for seriously considering a piece of software is whether or not there is an open forum (where one must register with a real email address) dedicated to the support of the software. The forum will allow you to see the good, the bad, and the ugly before you purchase the product. For those dating software vendors who really want to lead the pack, simply turn over your forums to the user community instead of controlling them yourself and recognize that independent forum as the official support/feedback forum for your product. I guarantee you that if your product is good, you will garner a loyal fan base and they will definitely let you know when your software or support needs improving. And a smart software developer will use that feedback from the forum to constantly improve their product.
Regards,
Eric
Sorry for the long email, but I just have to say this to Ska-Date. With my limited knowledge, I personally believe they have a quality piece of software, but I would recommend that they not try to be everything to everybody! Now let’s compare them to what I feel is another quality product; BoonEx Dolphin. It’s obvious why BoonEx allows you to add friends, create events, blogs, share videos, etc. BoonEx is primarily advertising products that allow you to build social communities/networks such as MySpace. But dating is a small subset of that and not the same. Therefore, if I’m looking to build a dating only website without the social network addons, I would look for a company who puts all their time and enegry into a serious dating software package. And one would expect Ska-Date to be that company by looking at their pricing and what they are advertising; Online Dating Software. However, I personally think you guys are spending valuable time trying to compete with the social community software vendors by adding, blogs, friends, events, etc.
Think about this. If I’m a dating website subscriber looking to find someone serious about dating, a spouse, a lover, etc. I don’t want to be on this website long enough to create alot of “friends†and I definitely don’t want to be sharing them with others. Of course you probably say that the owner can simply disable those modules, but that’s not my point. My point is that instead of using development monies to create social community type modules such as creating events, why not make the dating tools better and more robust, so that someone who wants to get into this market and really compete with Match, True, Yahoo Personals, etc. may opt for your product instead of building from scratch. If they have no more than few hundred bucks to spend and want to start a dating site not necessarily to compete with with big guys, then they will have a plethora of inexpensive products to choose from. And you guys may not want to play in that market. Or you may want to simply do what any good software company does and create a basic version your software that sells for a few hundred dollars and also create a professional version of your product that may sell for several thousand dollars. And if you need to know what features would be considered professional, simply create an account with Yahoo Presonals and emulate them. :-) Yahoo Personals doesn’t allow you to post blogs, add friends, and all that other social network stuff. However they have excellent tools to help you accomplish what you are there for; finding someone to have sex with…oops I mean someone to marry. :-)
To help you guys get started, here are a few things that I notice could be improved with your software to help you compete with someone such as Yahoo Personals and perhaps Ska-Date already has some of these functions and I missed them because I haven’t played around in the admin section yet.
1) need ability to save searches
2) need ability to access advanced search from the quick search window. In other words, I begin putting my information in the quick search and suddenly discover I want advanced search so I hit a tab and quick search becomes advanced search with all my information still in tact.
3) need ability to password protect profile. This allows subscriber to send an email to another subscriber with their profile password.
4) need ability to hide profile (stealth mode) from the search system and only allow those who I have contacted to see my profile
5) need to have history of who viewed your profile and whose profile you viewed
6) need to see history who you IMed or who IMed you
7) need history of who you emailed or who emailed you without having to go the the mail area
8) need ability to save subscriber’s favorite profiles
9) need ability to let people know when someone has saved them as a favorite
10) matching algorithm needs some artificial intelligence built in to allow you to
retrieve matches from individuals who somewhat meet subscriber’s requirements. For example, subscriber may say they want someone with no children, but subscriber should also be allowed to state whether it’s a “Must Have†or a “Nice To Have†and algorithm should put these near matches closer to the bottom of search. (see Yahoo Personals)
11) From the Sent mail, why is it necessary to have “Mark Read†and “Mark
Unreadâ€. That seems as though it should be available from the Inbox. But, I really don’t think you should have those options at all. This is not Microsoft Outlook.
12) From the Sent mail, I should be able to see who hasn’t opened my mail, who read and saved my mail and who read and deleted my mail. I should also be able to see who deleted my mail without even reading it first. I should be able to see this information down to the date and time.
13) Subscribers should also be able to see when was the last time another subscriber logged into the site unless the subscribers have their profile on stealth mode. And subscriber should be able to order their searches by “last logon date”, age, “distance”, etc.
14) Have a way where only the administrator can create events or have blogs. This allows the owner to promote and market the site without it being overrun by the subscribers. And speaking of the events, why make me type in the date, when you are showing a picture of a calendar. Let me click the date on the calendar and have the date automatically filled in.
15) need ability for subscribers to share someone’s profile so they can market for site owner.
16) need ability to see a side-by-side comparison of a particular subscriber’s profile and their ideal match (again see Yahoo Personals).
I’ll stop here, but hopefully you guys get my point. I really think that if you put this type of forethought into your product, you will have something that serious shoppers will be willing to spend ten times more for than what you currently have.
Just my 2 cents
Regards,
Eric
Eric, thank you for your questions.
Feel free to look at our public SkaDate forums.
We do have solutions for small businesses (regular SkaDate license with self-hosted or managed model) and enterprise dating site solution on SkaDate that offers dedicated support staff, dedicated hosting and maintenance, custom development, fine-tuning and scalability works.
Social network addons – our customers’ sites are not purely dating or purely social, but all kinds of hybrids. It is the industry that is changing, not software. I suspect True and Yahoo stay the same through all these years not because they keep their line but because they do not care. Argue here.
The features you suggested ARE THERE in our software except for these:
3,4,6,9,14,16
10) – our algo is somewhat simpler, your suggestion could make it nicer.
12) – our system is again a bit simpler but supports that.
13) – no results ordering like that yet, only choosing these options as search criteria.
All this can be done as a part of SkaDate E2 solution as custom modifications (or with a regular license) but I see your point. I’ve shown your comment to the product guys I’m sure the most important of these will appear in the main version of the product. You make good suggestions.
Thanks Eric, It’s always a pleasure to talk to educated insiders.
Thanks Emil,
So, do you guys have an open product forum that I can access?
Regards,
Eric
Yes Eric, I gave the link above.
Oh – Duh!!! lol
Wazzum.com is known for its agressive policy regarding more professional competitors. They love accusing scam somebody and then recommend Wazzum as, citing, “The most professional software in the Internetâ€. In fact that professional Wazzum software is just an unauthorized usage of WordPress engine and plugins. Removed all the links from WordPress, which is forbidden, and sells on his own behalf. The guys from datingsoftwarereviewer.com have made a research on it. You can see the full research over here:
http://datingsoftwarereviewer.com/review/41/
I’ve had some mixed experiences in the past, but I’m happy to say I found a site that seems to strike the right balance for online dating. http://www.postitos.com offers the same level of security as big-name online dating sites, but for a much lower price. They also have video listings and a great on-site communications tool. Check it out!
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